By Dirk Smith, M.Sc, SDL (He/Him)
Dirk Smith
My name is Dirk Smith. I am the managing editor for compete sports diversity. Today, I am joined by my friends, professional referee Ryan Atkins and president of the International Gay and Lesbian Football Association, Gus Penaranda. We will be talking with Ryan and Gus on a few different topics. So please introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit more about your background with soccer, your careers and being part of the LGBTQ+ community. Ryan, would you like to go first?
Ryan Atkin
Thank you. My name is Ryan Atkin, I referee in professional football leagues here in the United Kingdom. I’ve been a referee since the age of 15 years old but I’m not going to disclose my actual age at this point [laughs]. My involvement in the LGBTQ+ community has been actually very limited. It was only since coming out in 2017 that I have taken an active part in supporting and helping both LGBTQ+ tournaments, but also going into big corporations and trying to merge the gap between sports and these big corporations in how they can support each other and drive diversity forward.
Dirk Smith
Awesome! Nice to “meet” you Ryan, and Gus would you like to introduce yourself?
Gus Penaranda
Hi, I’m Gus Penaranda, colleagues with Ryan Atkin on the IGFLA board. I’ve been playing soccer recreationally since 2000. My father was a professional soccer player, but I was not out as a gay man. I chose to not play sports until I became comfortable with who I was so when I finally did come out, I discovered recreational soccer with the New York Ramblers. Now, almost 20 years later, I joined the IGLFA board where I’ve been working with organizations both in the public and private sector, pushing for diversity and inclusion through sport. I’ve traveled the world through the game of soccer As I finish my time as president of the organization, I am excited about what we’ve set forward for the next three to four years and it is just going to blow people’s minds out of the water regarding tournament play. Our division one is unlike any other in recreational sports, but we’re also making sure that we still remember to discuss the issues that many of us deal with around the world, because it is still very, very difficult for someone who is currently playing in a professional sport, especially soccer or football to come out as LGBTQ+ and still be playing that sport. We just had Josh Cavallo from Australia, who I believe is the only player, but you could see in his video how difficult it is because it’s not easy to be able to live your life as who you are, and still be respected a lot of the major sports.
Dirk Smith
Yeah, those are some very good points. Gus, thank you for sharing. That leads into my next question. Gus, you’re more involved with the LGBTQ+ specific league whereas Ryan, you are coming from the professional league. So, tell me more about your thoughts on how these two different kinds of organizations both within soccer can work together on this front to promote LGBTQ+ equality and inclusion.
Ryan Atkin
I think if you look at some of the initiatives that Stonewall UK have taken in the United Kingdom when it comes to Rainbow Laces and other stuff this year. With Rainbow Laces, the theme is to lace up and speak up. What we’ve seen within the United Kingdom is a lot of support from professional footballers. We’ve seen Jordan Henderson wearing Rainbow Laces, but not just wearing the laces or not just wearing the armband but coming out publicly and talking about LGBTQ+ in the media and using their social media spotlights to really get people to understand where they are and how they can support sport. You know, and looking further afield, Rainbow laces has now evolved not only within soccer, or football, but across many other sports. We’ve had Lewis Hamilton in Qatar, wearing “we stand together” with his rainbow helmet and it’s key people like that, having allies like that really will help drive the sort of inclusion and diversity within football. It will also drive the conversations that are needed for professional organizations who operate these leagues, whether it be the Premier League or the FA, to support things like LGBTQ+ tournaments with things like funding and sponsorship. So, there’s something given back into the local community.
Gus Penaranda
Yeah, I agree. One of the things that a lot of people seem to not understand is, yes, we are playing soccer and yes, most of our players are LGBTQ+, or identify as LGBTQ+. But there is a growing number of LGBTQ+ allies that are playing, not just because they want to support the organization and show that sport is sport, it doesn’t matter who you love. But also, it’s because the level of competition has increased as well. So, when you finally get recognized by the grand organization, such as FIFA as a nominee of their first ever Diversity Award, and then a few years later have the president of one of the oldest football organizations in the world acknowledge your organization on social media, that means that we’re getting the message through. These are just small steps, and you would think that “oh, you know, everything is better now,” but it is not, there’s a lot more work to do. Amongst ourselves and our allies, yes, we are getting the message out, we are reinforcing the message that it’s okay to play, we’re going to provide you with a safe space. But you know, it’s a very large planet and there are still countries where the penalty for loving someone of the same gender is punishable by death. You hear these stories and for a lot of young people, you know, they’d rather take their own life rather than admit who they are or even try to play a sport because they fear that, because of who they are, they’re going to play differently. Which is nonsense, but it shows that we have a lot more work to do. So, it is important to support and maintain these organizations, either as a volunteer or through social media. While we’ve come a long way, we have more to do. My generation is literally working to make sure that Ryan’s generation and the future generations after continuing to have a safe space, the ability to live their life and enjoy the sport that they love to play.
Dirk Smith
Those are very good points; I think you both are doing some solid work here on this front. Now that you’re working both on the board of IGLFA, can you tell me a little bit more about your work on that front in advancing this kind of work towards equality and inclusion?
Ryan Atkin
Yeah, so IGLFA is diversifying itself. I think that’s one of the key things that we’ve seen over the last few years with IGLFA tournaments, or even a sanctioned tournament. It’s about diversifying the actual tournament rather than just having a male tournament, it’s also having an open tournament for men, women, and individuals that identify as trans/non-binary can play together. We also have a good strong women’s tournament within it as well. That is the key because often, within these organizations, it tends to always be male dominated. So, for us, to ensure that our own organization is truly diverse has been a key fundamental element of the board in the last few years, and certainly moving forward with some of the key changes that we want to make as a team. We’ve got to remember; it’s about bringing people together for the love of soccer/football. However, somebody identifies should not be important as it is about the level of the game, whether professional level or amateur level. It’s given people a safe space to be able to play that sport whether that be competitively or non-competitively. Some people like to attend these tournaments to kick a ball around and interact with like-minded people because they don’t always have that where they’re from, or within their own social circles. Whereas you have other individuals who really do take it very seriously and they want to be crowned the winners which is great as well. So, it’s about having that diversity within our own organization to ensure that future tournaments are inclusive for all.
Gus Penaranda
Yeah. One of the amazing things that is happening to IGFLA for soccer, post COVID is what is going on at the Sin City Classic, January 13, through the 16th. In 2020, before the world shut down, the Sin City Classic tournament went on with 28 teams including about six- or seven-women’s teams. We were trying to increase participation, market and get more women’s teams interested, then COVID hit. Now, as we approach the next Sin City Classic, which is hosting the indoor World Championship, we had it cut off at 44 teams. Now there is a full 7 vs 7 women’s division that is playing, which is a double the number of female teams from two years ago, which is incredible. We want people to understand that this is for everyone, it doesn’t matter if you’re the best player or if you’re just doing this because you like kicking the ball. Division three is for you or even division one if you want to “go for the gold” as they say. But I like to remind people that many years ago before everyone got really into social media and posting videos, IGLFA has been fortunate to have an all-transgender team from Mexico, Didisex, who’ve played with us for years. They are well known throughout the membership around the world, everybody enjoys their level of play. As you get to know these organizations like a glove, like Stonewall, you’re going to notice what we have been doing or we have been working toward with diversity for years. It’s who we are, and we’re just building on it. But because the world changes in a second, we must continue to remind people of that and yes, we are working to grow at all levels. What’s happening, this coming January with all those women’s teams that are going to compete in Division 1 and 2 is amazing.
Dirk Smith
That’s fantastic. That’s always been the thing about trying to build up representation of women, and especially transgender and non-binary athletes. So, the fact that you have an entire team consisted of transgender and non-binary athletes, I think is fantastic. That’s the kind of representation that I think is super important to grow in the sport.
Gus Penaranda
I agree. Now, I don’t want to bring down the conversation, but I also want to one more thing about Didisex. I don’t want the younger generations to think everything is Kumbaya and it’s safe and clear. Didisex had a tragedy a few years ago, where one of their players was murdered. Unfortunately, it’s a reality and we cannot drop the ball on our young because until everyone understands what diversity and inclusion is important and we get to a place where everything is a safe space; we must continue to move forward with what we do, and it’s not going to be easy. Sometimes there are going to be difficult obstacles. I’m not going to tell you, it’s a kumbaya thing with volunteering on a board or reffing, as Ryan can tell you, but we do it because it needs to be done. We love this sport, and we’ll continue to do it if our knees hold out.
Dirk Smith
Ryan, do you have any thoughts?
Ryan Atkin
Yeah, Gus highlights a good point there that we are very fortunate in Western culture and in North America in that we live in a society that is more accepting, both in and outside of football or sport. And certainly, sport is making good strides in the right direction, but a lot of people in the tournaments come from outside of those areas. So, it is easy to think that when the question is asked “why do we need to have a separate LGBTQ+ tournament?” We forget some of the individuals that are traveling from other countries who don’t have the same rights, they don’t have the same opportunities. So, it is crucial that we provide those spaces, as Gus said, it is very difficult to enlist in this current day and age, post COVID, to really get organizations to understand where the LGBTQ+ plus communities come from. But also, sometimes the volunteer sector can be difficult and a lot of the time, especially with IGLFA, it is run by volunteers, people who do a lot of the work in their own free time to put on tournaments and to work with host cities to organize these amazing events. You only must look back in the last few years where we’ve been in, we’ve been in Rome (Eurogames 2019), and we’ve been in Paris (Gay Games 2018). They’re huge events and 99% of the time they are run by volunteers, so it is crucial that organizations such as IGLFA, and host cities really do get people that are passionate about the sport and can give some time to help produce them.
Dirk Smith
Indeed, for me, I think that’s such a big aspect of it, as well the community of it. Where you have a community of people that can come together with a common interest of playing the sport or being involved who just happen to also be LGBTQ+. That plays a big role in pushing for that support and acceptance. For a lot of these people, their identity and their feeling of belongingness is important. I’ve been asking this question for the past few months with my work with Compete Sports Diversity, trying to understand how LGBTQ+ sports events like the Sin City Classic and Gay Games are helping our community come together again, in post COVID times. When COVID hit all these events got canceled, and we couldn’t participate. So now coming out of it, how do you feel that these events will be crucial in building our community back up again?
Gus Penaranda
Well, one key thing in North America is that, for a while, the LGBTQ+ community was saying, “well, people are just putting up flags during June for gay pride just to get business.” And that is true, but organizations are getting wise as we tell them we need a little bit more. We need to make sure that your organization is accepting, even if you don’t believe everything we believe or, or support everything that we that we support, but you must understand why we are doing this. A lot of the major league sports in North America at least recognize that and you could see some, like MLS who have been doing much more with regards to night outs at their stadiums. I was fortunate to participate in the DC United night out in Washington, DC, Jim Anzor from the Federal Triangles, does amazing work with them there. They are a great ally and soon after I was invited to the Rowdies game in St. Pete. Also, St. Pete Rowdies night out, it’s amazing, because the crowds there are all mixed, they’re all enjoying the game of soccer. But it’s sending a message because no one there was looking around like who’s gay, who’s straight. They were simply watching the game and they were enjoying the sport because that’s what everyone has in common. We love the sport whether we’re playing or watching, and that’s the point. It doesn’t matter who we love. We love the sport. If that’s the way to open a door and get a conversation started about, “yes, I am gay. No, you’re not gay. But let’s have a conversation about the World Cup or Soccer Camps.” These are the conversations that hopefully will lead to more inclusion and acceptance around the world, especially in countries like Ryan mentioned that they’re outside of our western bubble.
Ryan Atkin
I think we’ve got to look at the fact that COVID has hit everybody slightly differently. Some people have fared better than others, depending on lock downs, and where we’ve been. So, for a lot of people, some countries are still coming through the back end of COVID. United Kingdom potentially, we’re going back into some restrictions, but we just don’t know yet. I think that’s the constant juggle and sort of gamble that that we take now. But what is good about re connecting with the community is when you saw how restrictions left people with the need for social interaction and whether that be through socializing, in restaurants in pubs, or whether that be on the football field. I think that is so important that sport brings people together. As Gus said, because they have a like-minded passion or love for the sport and then it doesn’t matter what race creed or sexuality you are, but fundamental principles are why you enjoy the sport. Then it does open those doors to different conversations. So, being able to go ahead for future tournaments to go ahead like Gay Games or Eurogames, it doesn’t really matter. It’s an opportunity for people to come together again and a lot of these people have been attending these tournaments for a long time. So, for some people they are like family, and this is going to be another opportunity for them to see individuals that they haven’t seen for a while in person. While we do have the joy of social media, we do have the joy of things like Zoom and Teams, but it’s the human interaction that I think, is pivotal and sport allows for that. The social element of these tournaments cannot be underestimated.
Dirk Smith
That’s a big thing for me as well. I haven’t been to the Sin City Classic since 2017 and I just recently participated in my first tournament in two years, a couple months ago at the Eurogames in Copenhagen. Just being around friends and being able to compete and attend those social events. That was a huge thing for me. It was really refreshing to get back into it again, even if it was for a short while. Then going forward from here, in addition to the Sin City Classic, they’ll also be the Compete Sports Diversity Leadership Conference, and the Compete Sports Diversity Awards. Are you planning to take part in the conference when we engage in these discussions around sports diversity, leadership, and other issues that we’re talking about right now? Are you going to plan on taking part in that as well?
Ryan Atkin
Yeah, I hope so. If my schedule allows for it. Whether I’m officiating or supporting a tournament if my schedule permits then I’ll be there. I always find these types of conferences very open and honest that sometimes throws in different thinking methods when it comes to diversity. So, it’s always good to hear other people’s opinions, especially people from different countries and how they’re looking within their own organizations or within their own industries around diversity inclusion.
Gus Penaranda
Yes, it’s going to be an amazing event. It’s also going to be a somber event, as many of you are aware, the head of the Sin City Classic tournament itself passed away unexpectedly, this summer. Ken Scearce had done amazing work with his colleagues and the Sin City Classic board. It’s amazing what a handful of people can do to put together an event for 12,000 to 14,000 people in Las Vegas and have it go off with without any visible hitches. Unfortunately, his life was cut short and while hopefully we will all be able to still meet in a couple of weeks. I know the Sin City classic will be honoring him and he is going to be honored at the awards dinner surrounded by friends, families, colleagues. To add onto Ryan’s comments on the conference, the educational side of the tournament is important because a lot of organizations don’t understand how to act. Now, private sector, not just the major league sports, but the private sector in general has come to the realization that it makes sense to work with LGBTQ+ organizations, sports or otherwise. It’s amazing when I speak to some of these companies and their CEOs, they don’t even know their local teams. So, for anyone that is going to participate or going to support someone, you can sign up for the conference. But if you can’t but you can make the dinner, where we get to say goodbye and thank you Ken Scearce for the wonderful work that you did. I look forward to meeting his surviving partner and to see everybody in person. Because COVID was difficult for everyone around the world and I lost a few friends myself, the one thing that we were not able to do is we weren’t able to properly say goodbye because of restrictions. We are human beings, we love, we care, and we suffer loss. This, for me, it’s a way I can do it being surrounded by friends and colleagues that appreciate what he did.
Dirk Smith
Indeed, I think honoring Ken at the Compete Sports Diversity Awards will be very appropriate because in addition to recognizing his legacy and his contribution to build up this community, will also be recognizing other sports diversity leaders and people who, like Ken, have contributed to the community and have played an important role in helping to advance LGBTQ+ sports diversity and inclusion. It’s going to be a very good event because we’ll be bringing people together, we’ll be able to see each other again. We’ll be able to properly honor Ken’s legacy as well as be able to honor the people that are continuing his legacy.
Gus Penaranda
Yeah, they’re doing amazing work and, talking about remembering who and where we came from, and who we are, that’s the next big conversation. After the Sin City Classic, as Ryan mentioned, there are still countries that are not where we are. We need to make sure that we don’t forget those pioneers who put their life in danger, suffer physical, verbal, and mental abuse simply because they would take the field in a public park back in the 80s when it was unheard of to play a sport.
Dirk Smith
Indeed. Ryan, do you have any thoughts on that?
Ryan Atkin
I’m looking forward to the event, this is my first Sin City Classic, but it’s not my first time to the USA. I’ve been attending the Dallas Cup tournament for the last 15 years, probably since I started officiating. So, for me, to be able to get back into the USA, both for the Dallas Cup tournament and for some leisure is just, it’s fantastic. But I also think it’s a great time to celebrate where we are going as a community and recognizing the next people that are going to replace me, Gus, and other people because you always need succession planning, you always need somebody who’s willing to take on the mantle. I’m not going to be around forever and the same for other individuals. So, it’s important that we recognize people that are giving so much back to the community to allow events like this to run. Gus makes a very good point that it’s critical to get businesses to understand their local community and if they want the best out of their workforce, if they want to diversify their business, they need to look locally, and they need to understand what responsibilities and what sponsorship they could give to support these individuals. Whether that be financial, through products, or whatever. There are so many ways of sponsoring and supporting these types of events that are not monetary based, whether it could be time, people who are skilled in social media, graphic design, etc. It’s about thinking outside the box and how you can support the community.
Dirk Smith
Wonderful.
Gus Penaranda
Ryan statements got me thinking about some of the positive wonderful things that happened at these tournaments, the side effects that people forget. There are a lot of couples who now have families with children around the world, who would never have met each other if they didn’t participate in one of these kinds of tournaments. One of the most amazing things I’ve seen, and I’ve been traveling for tournaments since 2000, my first big event was the Gay Games in Sydney, Australia which were amazing, was when the Gay Games was being held in Cologne in 2010. Every morning we would take the tram to the field at the stadium. I remember getting on a tram and the regular Cologne people are going to work, but because the tournaments were Monday to Saturday, I’m traveling with the London Titans which had the same time slot for a game, and they all broke out in song. Suddenly, all the people on the tram knew what the song was. I think it was the one of the songs that they were using for the upcoming World Cup and the entire tram, we’re talking about almost 100 people, just started singing along having a good time. I’m looking at the London Titan players and they’re just going along shaking, smiling, and just having one of those moments that, if I wasn’t there, I would never have experienced. These are the things that do happen and it’s not just a one off either. It happened in London, Sydney, and Paris. If you talk to soccer players or know any other sport athletes, they will also tell you yes, these things do happen. Those are moments in life that you’re going to remember for forever.
Dirk Smith
Indeed, as a fellow sport athlete, I also attended the same Gay Games in Cologne and I know exactly what you’re talking about because I have the same kind of experiences. It is truly magical. I want to thank you both for joining me today, and I am excited to see you both, in person, at the Sin City Classic in January!
For more information about the Sin City Classic, visit www.sincityclassic.org
For more information and to register for the Compete Sports Diversity Conference and Awards Dinner, visit https://competesportsdiversity.simpletix.com/?fbclid=IwAR2Ugw2pmI04zRngtjp5bmHhMoEOAdqipNAVkHgerMCJyVJDYtefj6WDuvs
